CURATED BY CAS

NAVAAL SAEED is the proud son of Pakistani migrants, born and raised on Wurundjeri and Bunurong land. His keen eye for contemporary editorials and cinematography has tapered into an interest for documentary-like conceptual shoots under the themes of identity and representation. As he reaches his first year as an emerging creative, he shares key moments working on Liminal Spaces, Hard2Say and his WOT x CAS residency.

Our conversation begins with Navaal’s experience shooting Converse All Star project ‘Liminal Spaces’, a full-day event of workshops, activities, raffles and pop-ups curated by All Star Aisha Hassan. 

LIMINAL SPACES

Navaal Saeed So I messaged Dan and I was like, ‘This is the situation, it’s a shoot for Converse. It goes for like, 8 hours. You already know what level I’m at photography-wise and whatnot’.

He said, “Are you shooting it on film?’. 
I’m like, “Yeah” 
and he was like, “Oh, $xxxx”. 

I was like excuse me… I felt scared to ask that much.

Fathiah Raihan Pricing your work is daunting.

NS Yeah, but he said, ‘Look, the money’s probably not coming from her. It’s coming from Converse. And if you feel that uncomfortable about (setting the price), you can ask them what their budget is first. The worst they can say is ‘No’, or ‘Can you do this price instead?’. 

FR Yes, and aim high. What was it like on the day?

NS I did the shoot using Dan’s point and shoot camera. When I got the photos back I was like, ‘Oh, shit’. They were pretty hit and miss with the focus. So I was panicking before sending it to Aisha. Out of the six or seven rolls that I shot, I ended up having one or two rolls that were kind of useless.

FR That’s like, what, 60 photos? 

NS Yeah. Out of 280 or something. So I still had 200 nice, decent photos. Luckily, she was happy to take on the blurry photos as well. I’m glad that it was someone that I knew rather than, like, some scary corporate person. It’s so weird. Aisha knew me when I was chubby in Year Six (laughs). She was good friends with my brother. 

FR It sounds really comfortable to have someone that you already know. 

NS Yeah I feel like I would actually have a genuine breakdown if it was a proper client. But I’ve now got a digital camera. It was an expensive camera. You know, the little video I made? 

FR Oh, that was beautiful. 

NS It was called Hard2Say. 

HARD2SAY

Under the lifestyle brand 823, Hopes & Dreams Club is a collective that fosters the next generation of photographers and music-makers through creative briefs and projects. 

In this challenge sponsored by Nikon Australia, 823 partnered with Aison to invite members to explore the dynamic with parents who may not fully understand their creative aspirations. The brief was titled ‘Hard2Say’, named after the lead single of creative director Ta-ku’s upcoming album.

NS I started it three months prior knowing I was going to scan all these photos. Dad has this old, dusty cardboard box that sits in his wardrobe. And I always knew that it had old film photos in there. I’ve sifted through them a couple of times, but I’ve never gone through every single photo individually. 

It was one of those moments where you have to scratch that itch and get it all out. 

FR How long did it take?

NS Oh, it took like six, seven hours (laughs). It was the most tedious process ever. 
My mum and dad would come home from work and be like, ‘What are you doing?’ and I’d tell them not to worry about it. 

I don’t like telling them about the work in progress, I like telling them about the finished product. And it sort of goes the same to some of my friends as well.

FR You’re very much a hard launch person.

NS (laughs) Yeah I’m a hard launch person. I don’t like the notion of whatever I’m creating sort of being perceived in any way or being judged. I’m just working on it by myself. 

HARD2SAY: PROCESS

NS When I started putting the photos together on Premiere, I got really frustrated. The idea in my head is so clear, but I’m putting it together and it’s just not working. I’d come to this obstacle going from Point A to Point B, and I really didn’t know how to get over it. 

I had the pressure of the deadline of submitting it, as well as other pressures with uni assignments. I was like, I’m tapping out. Every now and then, I was checking on the discord to see who had submitted what.

‘What does it look like? How have they taken this on?’. 

When they extended the deadline, Sam, who co-runs Hopes & Dreams, messaged me saying, ‘Hey Nav, are you submitting something for the project? I feel like this prompt’s really up your alley’. 

I said I was thinking about it, but probably not, because it just wasn’t working how I wanted it to.

She said, ‘Lowkey, you could win by default because no one else has submitted anything yet.’ 

I was like, ‘Oh, a camera would be nice’ (laughs).

FR ‘You miss 100% of the shots you don’t take’.

NS When I got back to work, what really kicked it off was this random TikTok that I stumbled upon. He used a flash cut technique that I was trying to use, and the audio was really emotional. So I started putting it together, and it all started clicking really fast. I started getting on the roll again.

The next morning, I finished it up. I submitted it. I was like, okay, it’s done. Like, it’s off my chest. It’s out in the world. Even if it didn’t win or anything, I really indulged in the process because those photos have a lot of sentimental value to my parents.

FR What were the stories behind these photos?

NS They were the first of their family to move overseas, so they’d take these photos and write little letters in Urdu on the back of them that they would send off to Pakistan. And then my grandparents or his siblings would write again and then send it back. And it was just like, a little back and forth. 

Dad still has the very first letter that he wrote to his siblings when he first came to Australia. This really sweet, heartfelt message about how much he’s missing them. The box also had his Pakistani passport, which carries the stamp that granted him a visa into Australia in 1994. I really enjoyed, while I was scanning them, having a conversation with Dad about each photo.

HARD2SAY: RESPONSE

FR Is family what you’re always thinking about? 

NS Yeah, I was a little bit self conscious about the caption I wrote, because I was being really open about my dad and I thought about my cousins in Pakistan or my mates and stuff – what if they perceive it? 

I showed Dad. He really liked the video. And those people I was scared about, those cousins from Pakistan were commenting on it saying how much they loved it. 

FR How sweet. Which you didn’t expect.

NS No, I did not. They were very receptive to it and they were very encouraging of it. Even my brother, who I didn’t show until it was out. I usually don’t because he either teases me or he makes fun of me 99% of the time. But this time he’s like, ‘Yo, this is actually, genuinely really sick’. And he’ll be like, ‘Look at what my little brother’s doing’.

EMERGING

FR So far, in the work that you have put out, what has it actually taken for you to say yes? What do you think that one thing was? 

NS To say yes and do it? 

FR Saying yes to putting things out there.

NS Sometimes it’s the whole, we’re on a tiny rock sort of thing. Most of it is me wanting to not allow myself to fall victim to bending myself to make other people comfortable. I was trying to keep it as true of an expression to myself as possible, because I feel like if I were to not put it out in the first place, in my mind, it’s almost like letting them win. And I’m a very petty person (laughs), so I very much don’t want to let that get a hold of me, especially as I’m starting out too. 

A little bit of advice I keep bringing myself is – the only person putting pressure on myself is myself. There’s no one else telling me, you got to do this, that X-Y-Z. I’m not allowing myself to form that habit of succumbing to that. So when I do start to put more and more stuff out, I’m more comfortable with it being wholly and entirely me. 

FR It sounds like you didn’t have to come to a point where you had to be 100% confident. You do it anyway. You do it uncomfortable. 

NS Yeah. The creative scene is so sweet too. It’s so great having a support network like you, Dan, JM, Aysha…super lovely. And it’s like when I see you guys putting stuff out that’s like, pieces of you, it also pushes me to sort of be just as vulnerable. 

FR The feeling is mutual. In the caption of ‘Hard2Say’ you mentioned the gap between being a novice and the grand visions that you have. What has that been like? Because I feel like so far, the work that you put out has been quite amazing.

NS Yeah. I mean, I’m very happy about the work that I’ve put out, but I always sort of think to myself and I always hear the occasional artist talk or the artist reel or TikTok or interview where they’re like, ‘Instead of trying to curate and put out one or two projects that you think are perfect in your eyes, start putting out as much as you can as possible. And whether or not you think it’s good or not, just start creating stuff.

FR And they’re saying to do it publicly. 

NS Yeah. You start to identify what you like, what you dislike and your own style a little bit quicker. But I guess having other commitments such as work or uni, it sort of forces me to slow down and not bombard myself. 

NS Even though I put out some really cool stuff – I’d show it some people who aren’t in the scene and they’ll see it and be like, 

‘Oh, the photos you took for the cricket shoot, The Coloniser’s Game, those are sick’. 

I’m like, ‘Oh, I didn’t actually take the photos for that.’ 

And they’re like, ‘Oh, so what did you do?’. 

I say, ‘I directed it. I put it together and styled it and whatnot’.

And they’re like, ‘Oh…okay’.

Comments like that make me doubt myself a little bit, which is why when I came into the WOTxCAS Residency, I wanted it to be wholly and entirely by Nav.

WOT X CAS RESIDENCY

In their third iteration, Way Over There (WOT) Collective and Connection Arts Space (CAS) ran their annual Artists In Residency Program platforming artists connected to the South-East suburbs of Naarm (Melbourne). The program includes a 10-day studio residency surrounded by the gardens of the Old Cheese Factory in Berwick, financial and social support for artists throughout their residency period, open studio days, artist talks and a group exhibition to showcase what the artists have worked on.

FR Tell me about your solo project.

NS I wanted to go to these local ethnic football clubs because post World War II, East European migrants would come over to Australia and settle here, bringing parts of their culture with them – one being soccer/football. As the main sport here was cricket or AFL, playing soccer was seen as the ‘Other’. It was so outcasted back then that these East European groups would form their own social clubs within their own communities associated with their identity. It was something that was really beautiful to me. 

NS But there was a shift in the 90s to rule out those ethnic clubs because they believed football clubs shouldn’t be dominated by ethnicity. Open for all, intentionally neutral. But there’s been calls to bring back these ethnic clubs and it wasn’t until last month that these cries were heard. 

FR Yeah, it’s something special to protect and preserve.

NS My project involved going to these ethnic clubs and taking photos of the heritage behind them because they’re fairly old. Some of them have been established since the 1950s or 60s, so they’ve got quite a fair few grandpas and grandmas associated with them. So I was going to take some intimate portraits of the Italian members of Veneto Club based in Bulleen. They’re very warm and welcoming. 

FR Beautiful, we’ll look forward to it.

You can follow Navaal on Instagram @navsaeed

All images sourced from Navaal Saeed.